View Poll Results: Are you in favour of a rule requiring that any review posted on TheYo be posted here in full text?

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  • YES

    39 72.22%
  • NO

    15 27.78%
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    NEW RULE PROPOSAL (Please read and vote if you use the Review section) 
    #1
    Good cop Yossarian's Avatar
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    This is somewhat wordy, but important. It involves reviews posted as links to external sites. The most important parts are highlighted and contain all the essential information in case you need to go back over it to focus on the key points.

    Recently, there has been a growing trend of reviews written and hosted elsewhere and linked here with no more than a small teaser for the full review, or even just a link. These are usually to someone's personal site. They are posted with good intentions of providing our members with useful information while promoting the work the person has put into designing and maintaining their own website for the good of the community. While we appreciate both the work put into the review and the work to maintain a personal site, and while we welcome members to share both with us, the practice of hosting the review entirely on a personal site and posting only a link or a link/teaser on the forum raises a potential issue:

    -If the personal site goes down in the future for whatever reason, the entire review is lost, and all our members are left with is a broken link instead of the information originally held in the review.

    As it is, a lot of valuable information that was once readily available to our community on various websites is now lost because the hosting sites have gone offline, and this concerns us, especially when we have that lost information linked to here. It essentially renders some of our threads useless. One of the most important functions of our forum, particularly the review section, is that it serves as a stable archive for information that will be useful years down the road, so if at all possible, we would like to keep as much of this information available as we can. The concern is how we strike a balance between letting hard-working members promote their own sites and ensuring that this information is properly archived with other reviews on our site so that members aren't potentially left with broken links a few years in the future.

    These links to external reviews without posting the content itself here are currently within the rules; however, we are considering a rule that would still allow the author to link to his or her site and credit the site for the review, but require the actual text be posted here along with the link to ensure its proper archival.

    Is this a reasonable rule to make, or is it overstepping our bounds? That is an issue that we would like you, as our members, to address. What do you want? Do you feel that the stability our site offers in archiving information is a compelling reason to require the full text be posted here, or do you feel that the author should be able to link the site here while relying only on his or her personal site for archival? Keep in mind that our primary concern is ending up with dozens of broken links and essentially useless threads archived in the future that make finding the desired information more difficult for users searching for older reviews. We don't want to force anyone to archive here, just to require that if they do so in link form, they also do so in full text form. Posting a review here in link form is entering a thread for the review into our archives, so the purpose of this rule is to maintain our own archived threads for the entirety of this site's existence.

    Again, this is up to you. We do not want to wield our authority unreasonably over our members, so we ask you what you think on the issue. Please consider all sides of the issue and vote according to how you feel best benefits our community.

    For clarity, a vote of YES would be a vote to add a rule that requires all reviews linked to someone's personal site also be posted in full text along with the link. A vote of NO is a vote to keep the rules as they currently are and allow members to simply link to reviews on their own sites. Reviews on other forums or stores are not allowed either way.

    All votes are anonymous.

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    TheYo mods and admins

    RIP YoMike
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    Re: NEW RULE PROPOSAL (Please read and vote if you use the Review section) 
    #2

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    I see no downside to this rule, I think its a great idea, then again I don't have a personal website
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    Re: NEW RULE PROPOSAL (Please read and vote if you use the Review section) 
    #3
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    This is obviously addressed to Yoyoskills and myself at highspeedyoyo.

    Ok I understand your point but let me give our side of this from a reviewers stand point and as the website owners. I do not speak for Chris so this is for Chris Rhoads and myself at highspeedyoyo.

    If we were to post the full review here it gives TheYo publicity and makes TheYo grow bigger. In return our site and hard work gets nothing. We spend our hard earned money and time to write these reviews and make these sites for the better of the community. We are not competing stores, we are not in competition with TheYo at all. Both sites are for reference and to help others make educational decisions based on unbiased reviews.

    By us posting these links we are helping your users and potentially helping your sales. But by making us post a full review here why would the end user ever click our link. They read what they wanted to read. You win and our sites that we work hard for get no recognition for the time and effort put forth.

    I know it seems simple for the common person to just say yes, but for us spending incredible amounts of money to just try and help the community with reference sites, this seems a little harsh. I think as of the late the yoyo community and all their sites seem to be getting a little to constrictive with the amount of rules. I understand not linking to competitors but why should someone help TheYo if their not going to turn around and scratch our backs to help us.

    I love this site and always will if the rule is set forward or not, and I mean no disrespect what so ever. But this rule is in favor of Theyo growing and not the sites doing all the leg work.

    Brett
    highspeedyoyo.com
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    Re: NEW RULE PROPOSAL (Please read and vote if you use the Review section) 
    #4
    IV
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vguitars View Post
    This is obviously addressed to Yoyoskills and myself at highspeedyoyo.

    Ok I understand your point but let me give our side of this from a reviewers stand point and as the website owners. I do not speak for Chris so this is for Chris Rhoads and myself at highspeedyoyo.

    If we were to post the full review here it gives TheYo publicity and makes TheYo grow bigger. In return our site and hard work gets nothing. We spend our hard earned money and time to write these reviews and make these sites for the better of the community. We are not competing stores, we are not in competition with TheYo at all. Both sites are for reference and to help others make educational decisions based on unbiased reviews.

    By us posting these links we are helping your users and potentially helping your sales. But by making us post a full review here why would the end user ever click our link. They read what they wanted to read. You win and our sites that we work hard for get no recognition for the time and effort put forth.

    I know it seems simple for the common person to just say yes, but for us spending incredible amounts of money to just try and help the community with reference sites, this seems a little harsh. I think as of the late the yoyo community and all their sites seem to be getting a little to constrictive with the amount of rules. I understand not linking to competitors but why should someone help TheYo if their not going to turn around and scratch our backs to help us.

    I love this site and always will if the rule is set forward or not, and I mean no disrespect what so ever. But this rule is in favor of Theyo growing and not the sites doing all the leg work.

    Brett
    highspeedyoyo.com
    I think you're missing the point. Theyo is still planning on helping you. You will still be able to credit your site. From Yossarian's standpoint, this isn't about popularity or trying to get viewers; it's about content archival and availability. If for any reason your site does go down in the future; and some yoyo sites have, the information would still be available.

    The community bases almost 99% of it's entire knowledge to internet archives and text from the forums and websites, saying that it's one site's problem or fault because they feel the rules are in favor of other sites is a little skewed, Theyo.com has just about always favored the big picture over itself, it's not about you, or yoyonation or yoyoskills or any of the other sites; it's about content continuity.
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    Re: NEW RULE PROPOSAL (Please read and vote if you use the Review section) 
    #5
    Love the One Drops Vguitars's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IV View Post
    I think you're missing the point. Theyo is still planning on helping you. You will still be able to credit your site. From Yossarian's standpoint, this isn't about popularity or trying to get viewers; it's about content archival and availability. If for any reason your site does go down in the future; and some yoyo sites have, the information would still be available.

    The community bases almost 99% of it's entire knowledge to internet archives and text from the forums and websites, saying that it's one site's problem or fault because they feel the rules are in favor of other sites is a little skewed, Theyo.com has just about always favored the big picture over itself, it's not about you, or yoyonation or yoyoskills or any of the other sites; it's about content continuity.

    Totally understood but if our sites dont get traffic what makes a manufacture willing to send us something to review? They base their decisions off of what we can do for them not what theyo can do for them.

    If our sites dont grow in size or in hits then the manufactures wont be willing to send us the yoyos to review. Its all a working system of trust and what we present to the manufactures in return for allowing and trusting us with their products.

    Its a big scenario that I think we could all work out, I understand the archival purposes and if Mike wants me to send him a text of each review in any format that he can sit on in case my site goes down I would be willing to do that. But we as reviewers need to promote ourselves as well.

    Site traffic is a major decision maker in some of the manufactures decisions to send us a review unit. Knowing that my site is getting 8000-9000 new visits each month, knowing that the site has coverage in every country.

    I go thru around 2-4 terabytes of bandwidth each month doing something totally free for the community.

    Its not about popularity, its about stats to the manufactures that I can provide to say hey were not just a bunch of little kids with a random site, that were an established site with the stats to back it up.

    I know I will become the bad guy once again, and this is not meant in disrespect in any way, shape, or form. I just feel its unfair to the people trying the hardest to provide something useful to the community for free.

    No one knows the amount of money and time Chris Rhoads and I have spent to try and help this community. I can careless about popularity most either know me, or hate me as it is. So its not about that. Its about the statistics. Its about letting the ones that are helping you, help you, and in return trying to help each other.
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    Re: NEW RULE PROPOSAL (Please read and vote if you use the Review section) 
    #6
    We are human after all mrcnja's Avatar
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    I like the new rule but Vguitars also has a good point. We could always have a system where people are asked to go to the website if they liked the review. That way you would still get close to the same number of hits. Or, you could have your pictures on your site and say, "Click this link for pictures."

    Something like that would be a fair balance. Right?

    As for archival, this is why I like YYW.
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    Re: NEW RULE PROPOSAL (Please read and vote if you use the Review section) 
    #7
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    Well Brett, do you have a way to have a safe archive of your site in case it goes down? I'm willing to setup a mirror of your site (and possibly yoyoskills, but I don't know if I have the space) in case it does.
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    Re: NEW RULE PROPOSAL (Please read and vote if you use the Review section) 
    #8
    IV
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vguitars View Post
    Totally understood but if our sites dont get traffic what makes a manufacture willing to send us something to review? They base their decisions off of what we can do for them not what theyo can do for them.

    If our sites dont grow in size or in hits then the manufactures wont be willing to send us the yoyos to review. Its all a working system of trust and what we present to the manufactures in return for allowing and trusting us with their products.

    Its a big scenario that I think we could all work out, I understand the archival purposes and if Mike wants me to send him a text of each review in any format that he can sit on in case my site goes down I would be willing to do that. But we as reviewers need to promote ourselves as well.

    Site traffic is a major decision maker in some of the manufactures decisions to send us a review unit. Knowing that my site is getting 8000-9000 new visits each month, knowing that the site has coverage in every country.

    I go thru around 2-4 terabytes of bandwidth each month doing something totally free for the community.

    Its not about popularity, its about stats to the manufactures that I can provide to say hey were not just a bunch of little kids with a random site, that were an established site with the stats to back it up.

    I know I will become the bad guy once again, and this is not meant in disrespect in any way, shape, or form. I just feel its unfair to the people trying the hardest to provide something useful to the community for free.

    No one knows the amount of money and time Chris Rhoads and I have spent to try and help this community. I can careless about popularity most either know me, or hate me as it is. So its not about that. Its about the statistics. Its about letting the ones that are helping you, help you, and in return trying to help each other.
    You're hardly losing anything.

    I get your point but he is stating that he allows you to promote your site and Theyo does allow promoting of any site within the USA that doesn't actually sell any yoyo related product and there are many ways around this.

    -Put up a video on your site and a message at the end of the review that states::
    "visit "your site" to see the video and more."

    -Put up an interview or a picture that's exclusive to your site and a message that states::
    "visit "your site" to see exclusive pictures and more."

    There's far more than one way to skin a cat, the problem is finding a person who would buy a cat fur hat.
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    Re: NEW RULE PROPOSAL (Please read and vote if you use the Review section) 
    #9
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    Here are the problems I have with this rule:

    -Some dedicated sites have had to take on banner ads to help cover the cost of running them. Take away the potential viewers of the banner ad and you hurt those sites.

    -Page hit statistics are the easiest way of showing a manufacturer that it is worth the time and money to loan a site a review unit. Posting reviews in their entirety here cheats the dedicated site of those statistics.

    -Some people just want to read the review. Posting a link for exclusives is no guarantee that the reader will click it. Going off the skinning a cat analogy, some of readers are just going to say "Nice description of the cat skin cap, lets move on"

    -How are you going to handle video reviews? It is not out of the realm of possibility that a video is deleted from the dedicated external site that hosts it, no matter how big the hosting site may be. Are you going to require the reviewer to transcribe the entirety of the review for this site? This rule needs to be fair for everyone, so print and video reviews need to be treated as equal.

    In all honesty this should have been handled differently. A rule like this is not something that effects the general public unless the dedicated site fails. It is something that should be discussed between the dedicated sites and the moderators, and owners, of TheYo. The original post paints a doomsday scenario for the possible shuttering of a dedicated site that makes voting "yes" the only logical choice for the general public, thus skewing the results. I would gladly have a sit down with TheYo to try and reach some sort of compromise, and I am sure that other dedicated reviewers would do the same. At the end of the day I recognize that my readers and TheYo's readers are one in the same. I want to make sure that I am serving them in the best way possible.
    Senior Editor
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    Re: NEW RULE PROPOSAL (Please read and vote if you use the Review section) 
    #10
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    Sorry, but this was bugging me. I'm pretty sure it's "TheYo" and not "TheYo!".
    Team Weenieyo
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    Re: NEW RULE PROPOSAL (Please read and vote if you use the Review section) 
    #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac View Post
    Sorry, but this was bugging me. I'm pretty sure it's "TheYo" and not "TheYo!".
    Fixed it. I don't know where I saw it like that before but I have always put the exclamation point on the end.
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    Re: NEW RULE PROPOSAL (Please read and vote if you use the Review section) 
    #12
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    I agree with saintrobyn, the sites need the traffic for various reason in order to keep doing the reviews.
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    Re: NEW RULE PROPOSAL (Please read and vote if you use the Review section) 
    #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by saintrobyn View Post
    In all honesty this should have been handled differently.
    No rule is being implemented at this point. We opened it up for discussion to get all angles on the subject from all of our members. The poll is not the deciding factor on whether the rule will be put into play or not.

    A rule like this is not something that effects the general public unless the dedicated site fails. It is something that should be discussed between the dedicated sites and the moderators, and owners, of TheYo.
    That seems to be exactly what's going on here.

    Honestly, I can see both sides of the coin here. Let me make a suggestion to the other mods and admins. I may have an idea that could cover all fronts and be beneficial to everyone.
    Always looking for this and that

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    Re: NEW RULE PROPOSAL (Please read and vote if you use the Review section) 
    #14
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    Go luke!!! :)
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    Re: NEW RULE PROPOSAL (Please read and vote if you use the Review section) 
    #15

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    I'm not sure how those external sites help Theyo grow when you are not exclusive to Theyo. The same identical posts are made on the other forums as well.

    I appreciate you guys do, but Theyo will go on regardless of what you add to the forums.

    Not to pick on High Speed Yoyo but I don't see a link to the Theyo.com.
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    Re: NEW RULE PROPOSAL (Please read and vote if you use the Review section) 
    #16
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    ^^ But to be fair, there's no links to any forum on their site. Their exclusion of links to forums isnt exclusive to TheYo.
    Always looking for this and that

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    Re: NEW RULE PROPOSAL (Please read and vote if you use the Review section) 
    #17
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    We dont link to any stores we dont want to offend any other stores. We link to the manufactures only.

    And no one said theyo would go away, or not grow, its the other way around. :)
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    Re: NEW RULE PROPOSAL (Please read and vote if you use the Review section) 
    #18
    IV
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    Quote Originally Posted by crownrocks View Post
    Not to pick on High Speed Yoyo but I don't see a link to the Theyo.com.
    oooo, now we're throwing poop.
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    #19

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    I only say that because you claim that your website can only benefit Theyo, which I do not deny that it does.

    However, if that is your argument, then why not post all the stores that you post on.

    Again not to compare but yoyoskills posts the other stores. Just saying ^^

    Quote Originally Posted by IV View Post
    oooo, now we're throwing poop.
    IV you trouble maker ;p.

    Seriously I don't seem to be able to convey my feelings by the way I write. I tend to keep things short and sweet and sometimes that comes off being a bit cold and angry.

    Just adding some things to think about. Nothing more.
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    #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by crownrocks View Post
    I only say that because you claim that your website can only benefit Theyo, which I do not deny that it does.

    However, if that is your argument, then why not post all the stores that you post on.

    Again not to compare but yoyoskills posts the other stores. Just saying ^^
    We would rather not alienate some stores by accidentally forgetting to name them on our site. Chris has one of the most comprehensive store lists of any dedicated review site out there, but he is missing a couple. This is not a slam against Chris or YoYoSkills, it is just a fact that people and sites get lost in the chaos that is running a dedicated website. The only reason we even list the yo-yo manufacturers is because they are kind enough to supply a yo-yo for review, whether it be a loaner, the rare donation, or in most cases me contacting them and purchasing it directly from the company. This is our way of saying thank you for letting us review the yo-yo. And going back to the forgetting part, I can tell you that until just a few minutes ago I had forgotten to put SPYY on the links list. I will have to get Brett to change that soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by IV View Post
    And now to show my true geek side, that panel is from Fantastic Four/Iron Man - Big in Japan. Such a fun read.
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