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    Looking for help on project yoyos 
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    Hello forum!
    I teach CNC machining at the local college and we've been trying to come up with new ideas for projects. The criteria for this particular course involves the students setting up the machines to cut "pre-programmed" items, and in doing so they learn how to run the machine and how to adjust it in order to create a quality workpiece. Some of the things we already make include a clock, magnafier bezel, a couple keychains, and some other trinkets.

    So naturally I'm posting on this forum since someone had the idea of making a yoyo the other day. Okay great idea...except nobody here really knows much about yoyo design. I drew up some early sketches but then I started reading up about some of the features that aluminum machined yoyos have (friction pads, o-rings, the bearings of course) and some of this is new to me. We had a project a few years back that involved robots putting yoyos together when you told it how many weights to add, but that's the closest thing. And that student graduated a long time ago (lol). My preliminary yoyo shape didn't involve a bearing, like the cheapo ones you can get at a dollar store) but I think it'd be better to just use a bearing design if I can make everything work without being too complicated or expensive.

    I was wondering if anybody had some bona-fide cutaway drawings they would like to share. I searched around the forum and found MANY helpful threads with lots of dimensions (especially information on the bearings and axles). I don't want to make an outright replica of any yoyos being sold but if anyone has insights as to what works and what doesn't, that'd be a great help. Having said that, obviously I don't want to "re-invent the wheel" as it were. The only constraint is that it can't exceed 2 inches diameter (5.08-cm). I will also have to process the final workpiece so it can be efficiently fabricated without too much head-scratching....but I'll take care of that part

    Keep in mind these college yoyos will be "free" to the students (free if you don't count the cost for taking the class) and we can assume most of the students won't be skilled with the art of manipulating the finished yoyo once they put it together. So I'm not going for any super high-performance devices, just something that gets the job done. Bearings possibly, o-rings possibly, removeable weights no.

    Anyway I'll keep you guys updated if you want. Thanks for any help!
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    Re: Looking for help on project yoyos 
    #2
    Indeed good sir! J_scap's Avatar
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    Bearings are quite easy to come by, you can get a large stock of size C bearings from Vxb or vbx I can't remember It's probably the 2nd one, you can just google them and they'll be one of the top hits.

    As for o-rings, you could contact yoyojam about that seeing as they are the main company that uses that form of response, or you could just order a pair of yoyojam o-rings from an online yoyo store and go to your local hardware store and try to find the same size ones, as for depth the groove the o-ring goes into, I'll get back to you on that because it's almost 2 am here and I've got to get to bed. you'll probably have a response at 5-7 when I wake up for school.

    But just as a suggestion, I'd pick up a yoyojam lyn fury to actually get a feel of how the yoyo should not only look but how the bearing sits in the yoyo and to get other ideas on response systems.

    EDIT: 3-4 mm deep should be perfect.

    I do chain maille, you can see it here and here.
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    Re: Looking for help on project yoyos 
    #3
    You jelly? I'm jam. Humphrey's Avatar
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    If a yoyo has more rim weight, it will spin longer because of the torque. Stacking all the weight on the rims though makes the hub weak, and can undermine the yoyo.

    I did some digging, and found these on another forum:

    I think this is a One Drop Project (left) and a One Drop Sovereign (right). The Sovereign is Ti, so the walls are super thin.


    This is a SPYY Pure. The caps are friction fitted asfaik...


    This is an ILYY E1ns.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgodinez
    i like my bearings dry...shaken, not stirred.
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    Re: Looking for help on project yoyos 
    #4

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    Thanks those pics are great. I'll look into the yoyojam models since they seem to emulate the general shape pretty well. I've been searching around on the yoyo wikia page trying to see some of the major differences out there...lots of good information.

    At the moment it looks like I probably won't end up going with a bearing, but rather a bushing of some material. It'll end up being a more simple workpiece if I can eliminate the separate response method. What I'm planning is to make the yoyo halves in one fell swoop on the machine, meaning they won't have to be turned around to finish the backside (although this isn't required). Also I think I can make the halves identical which would be nice.

    I think from a performance standpoint this isn't so bad, since like I said the yoyos won't be in the hands of professionals, so the pricey bearing/response system probably isn't necessary. (thoughts??)

    Anyway the other thing I've been thinking about is the material. Until now I've been using a butterfly shape and making it out of aluminum. This will end up being a little over 60 grams (calculated to like 62 grams). BUT we already have two other projects in the class that use aluminum so I'd like to make it out of something else instead for variety. Perhaps wood, or a colored plastic like delrin or nylon.
    Well the non-metal materials are quite a bit lighter. My first drawing was a variant of the butterfly shape but it weighed only 40 grams. Is there a "minimum" for yoyo mass that I should stay above?

    hmmmm....
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    Re: Looking for help on project yoyos 
    #5
    You jelly? I'm jam. Humphrey's Avatar
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    It's more about the way the weight is distributed. 55 grams is the lowest I've seen, but that was concentrated in the riks with tungsten/copper weight rings.
    This will allow it to be responsive or unresponsive.
    I think you will want a bearing. Just design it to accept two different width (ie yyj) bearings. The response is not that complicated; just cut a groove and fill it with flowable silicone.

    If you use delrin or nylon, however, don't forget to make threaded inserts for the axle.
    Theyo.com: The Final Frontier. To boldly troll where no troll has trolled before...
    Quote Originally Posted by mgodinez
    i like my bearings dry...shaken, not stirred.
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    Re: Looking for help on project yoyos 
    #6
    YoCapo jhb8426's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_scap View Post
    As for o-rings, you could contact yoyojam about that seeing as they are the main company that uses that form of response, or you could just order a pair of yoyojam o-rings from an online yoyo store and go to your local hardware store and try to find the same size ones, as for depth the groove the o-ring goes into...

    EDIT: 3-4 mm deep should be perfect.
    The YYJ o-rings are a stock hardware item. As are most other yoyo parts aside from the body. It doesn't pay to custom produce those parts.

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    Re: Looking for help on project yoyos 
    #7
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    Found this on google;

    This is a rather wide yoyo. Most are about 53-56 mm in diameter and about 40-50 mm in diameter. Most weigh between 64 and 70 grams. Also walls are generally thin 1.8-2 mm and have the weight around the rim.


    "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice"
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    Re: Looking for help on project yoyos 
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    bearings can be bought for $2 online if not looking at an online yoyo store.
    response is as simple as putting some silicone in a groove and letting it dry. That's cheap too. cutting a yoyo in one fell swoop as you say is near impossible. cutting the other side and not having much in the center holding the two together will cause too much force by the bit and it will break. I've made about 150 yoyo's and a few made on a manual lathe.

    It will be interesting. the cost of the bearing, response and axle shouldn't be more than $5. max. Just dig for it. As a matter of fact Terrapin may just donate a few bearings if you can prove who you are. He's a great guy with phenomenal bearings.


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    Re: Looking for help on project yoyos 
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    oh yeah I know bearings are cheap (I buy them all the time for triggers and other parts). The cost isn't as much of an issue as the complexity of tools/fixturing necessary to create the bearing's geometry. I'm still working on it but I want to get at least a preliminary version cut so I can mess around with it.

    To that end, here's something along the lines of the profile I'll be prototyping soon (below). I'm going to modify it a bit to make the outer diameter a little beefier and the walls leading up to it thinner, to distribute the weight differently. This one will be alumium, weight is estimated at 63.5 grams. It obviously does not use a bearing but rather a plastic or brass bushing instead...and as a result can be done in one fell shebang on the lathe. Make two of them, assemble with the bushing, and there's a finished cheapo yoyo.

    Again the weight will be distributed a little differently, this is just the only one I have modeled up right now.

    My options for a more complex design (bearing) are one of two possible routes. The first is I make a threaded lathe fixture to flip the part around and hold it from the opposite end, then use a reverse-oriented tool to cut a groove in the face of it. It must be reverse of the conventional cutting direction so that the workpiece gets tighter on the screw instead of loosening up on it.
    The other option is to cut the half from one worksetup on the machine, after fabricating a customized groove tool that can reach down inside the string area and cut into the side of the part. This is definitely possible for production but for the students...well it's a recipe for disaster.
    So....we can buy a left-hand groove tool for the two-worksetup option, although I'd like to avoid doing that if possible since it'll cost a couple hundred dollars. The single worksetup option involves fabricating a custom groove tool from scratch which I want to do even less, not to mention it being pretty unorthodox for an introductory class (lol).

    I'm just trying to explain some of the choices leading around various characteristics of the design. One thing to make a yoyo but another to make a school project for people that won't end up turning into a puzzle...been down that road before

    In other news, these might end up being a lathe-then-mill project, which would be neat since we can engrave stuff into them and mill out a rim pattern, or something. If that's the case we can probably include a bearing and simply mill it separately, as long as the machine setup is accurate enough (concentricity etc). It depends on whether we use the yoyo for the first or second half of the class. Ideally I'd like to develop machine programs and examples for all of these variations of the yoyo design, since it gives us the flexibility to have different eductional options on the shelf in case we need them.
    This forum is great, thanks for all the suggestions and examples thus far...
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    Re: Looking for help on project yoyos 
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    Here's one with response system (required two worksetups) still haven't added the bearing to it but when I make this version it'll use one. It's heavier on the rim and has cross-holes drilled to lighten up the dead space in the middle.


    I could grab some adhesive-backed polymer (rubber, neoprene, etc) and make a punch that will knock out little disk-shaped pads using the appropriate dimensions. Have to find a suitable polymer though, since I wouldn't want it to be too squishy...
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    Re: Looking for help on project yoyos 
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    Some tips;
    Don't have the walls too thick. This is better;

    This is from an upcoming manufacturer so don't steal the design.

    Make the response recess thin. Too wide will cause funky things...


    "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice"
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    Re: Looking for help on project yoyos 
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    Well, the walls in the second picture I posted above aren't solid, rather they're hatched with an array of holes around the circumference. By the math it removes a nice chunk of the wall's mass. I could use thinner walls but the reason the holes are there is pretty much for funsies. I just added them since the parts would already be locacated in the mill so I wanted to do something other than creating the bearing and response race. I'll probably do some engraving or something too, but nothing is set in stone (espeically not the wall thickness)

    I'll shorten the response distance a bit (it was one of the questions I had). For reference the "thickness" of the pad in the picture is 1/16" (0.063) which I want to make thinner too.

    EDIT: found out holes are a bad idea after all!! (below)
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    Re: Looking for help on project yoyos 
    #13
    You jelly? I'm jam. Humphrey's Avatar
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    1/16" isn't too wide for a pad. It is too thin.

    I think most pads are ~.25". Silicone is grippier, so I think .150" is optimal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgodinez
    i like my bearings dry...shaken, not stirred.
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    Re: Looking for help on project yoyos 
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    I think I might be talking about something else, I mean the "height" of the pad as if you were to lay the disk on a table and measure how high it sits. In other words the thickness of material I would need to buy in order to stamp out some pads...huge variety available so it'll take some additional research.

    So here's a good update...I cut a few initial workpieces this evening to test. I don't have any spare string or the correct axles lying around but I was still able to toy with the process and see what equipment we'll need to buy (looks like I'll need to make a toolholder after all). These yoyos are still too unbalanced but at least the process is somewhat workable. Still working on the details though.

    I cut two complete workpieces, the first one has a thicker wall and is around 65 grams.





    I went back and adjusted some of the cutting parameters, which made some things better, but also made some things worse. Mostly the surface finish (went too fast) stupid mistake. There's also a visual "chatter" pattern all around the rim...the good news is it looks really cool, but the bad news is it's caused by vibration which means the cutting tool is probably half dead at this point. oh well, at least we'll have a cool "don't do this" example to sit on the shelf.

    I also made a very slight "step" pattern down on the face, although it's not very visible. Have to make it more pronounced I suppose.

    I'm going to modify the wall thicknesses more and cut the next version tomorrow. I want to hit the local materials store and see what kind of colorful polymers they have in the grab-bin, then try out some non-butterfly shapes too (if I have time). These are fun workpieces for sure!
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    Re: Looking for help on project yoyos 
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    Cool. I was going to post earlier but didn't have time. Don't put holes around the outside walls. Unless they are Perfect it will cause vibe.


    "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice"
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    Re: Looking for help on project yoyos 
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    understood. I never wanted those holes anyway!! :)

    That's kinda interesting though. If the part were removed from the lathe and brought over to the mill, the center can be found within, say, 0.002" without too much sweat. But I wouldn't be surprised if it had to be more accurate due to the crazy yoyo speeds.

    Someday I'll have to make a few test pieces with a hole array and test out how much inaccuracy it takes. I can make it perfect (drill the holes while the part is still indexed on the lathe) but it'll have to wait until later since my machine is out of commission right now...uggh
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    Re: Looking for help on project yoyos 
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    I just wanted to say that it is awesome that you thought of making yoyos for your class :)

    hopefully things work out and you have a working yoyo design.
    psn-TIN1NAT3R
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    Re: Looking for help on project yoyos 
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    You jelly? I'm jam. Humphrey's Avatar
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    The rule of thumb for tolerances is .001". Kyo has machined several yoyos, and this is what he always tells me when I ask.

    That looks really cool though! Do you have live tooling? I'm not a machinist by any means, but if you did, you wouldn't need to unchuck the half to do nonconcentric cuts, right?
    Theyo.com: The Final Frontier. To boldly troll where no troll has trolled before...
    Quote Originally Posted by mgodinez
    i like my bearings dry...shaken, not stirred.
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    Re: Looking for help on project yoyos 
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    I have live tooling in my shop, but the school doesn't have it. We probably wouldn't even teach it if we did have the equipment available, just out of time constraints (at least for this class). The measurement indicators we use aren't the most accurate either, which is why I mentioned +-0.002". Naturally you could get a more accurate setup if using the correct instruments, it wouldn't be too hard, but it's a little beyond the scope of this particular class.

    In the higher up courses we teach programming and CAD/CAM but the workpieces are much more generic and paperweight-ish. Not cool stuff like this :)

    Speaking of that, I wasn't able to get any new aluminum ones cut yesterday, but I did make a very quick delrin version using the "classic" shape. It's a total barebones yoyo that doesn't use any bearing/bushing, no response, nothing. We probably won't use these, but at least the program is already written so they can be used for quick demos or for giveaway parts during expos/whatever.


    I'm hoping to cut some new aluminum ones with a better design this afternoon. We'll see!

    Quote Originally Posted by tin_ View Post
    I just wanted to say that it is awesome that you thought of making yoyos for your class :)
    hopefully things work out and you have a working yoyo design.
    Thanks dude I hope the students agree :) So far the people in the lab seem pretty interested and they're not even taking the CNC classes. Anything that gets people interested is worth trying out.
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    Re: Looking for help on project yoyos 
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    WildCat23's Avatar
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    That's cool. I also find it funny because there is a yoyo called the barebones...


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